I carried it for next 8 years on my. If you have also been stuck on how to date a Kabar knife properly before you landed on this piece, I believe you must have all the information you need right now. Not sure about the pommel stamping. Ive read reviews that claim the new ones (from Ontario) are not as good. These items Only the same "Camillus N.Y." markings, either on the normally found pile or reverse side of the blade, or stamped on the Name side or front of the knife. Here are some ways to identify a fake Camillus knife: The tang stamps are all over the place; There is a mix of lower and uppercase letters; The font is a bit off; Short and curved false edge (as opposed to the long sweeping false edge of the WWII knife) Scabbards are marked with Eagle, Globe and Anchor I suspect it is Vietnam era from its condition. Is it a genuine vintage or merely a reproduction? The large guard is nickel Our fellow member Frank Trzaska wrote about these knives most recently, I think, in his February 2014 article in Knife World entitled "The USAAC 5" Hunting Knife". Most of the knives shown I have factory documentation on from the The genesis of the Air Force Survival Knife goes back to the 1950s at the dawn of the jet age. As a result, the Ontario Knife Company developed a prototype based on the 1957 design that was first submitted by Marble. qualified technician to remove the surface rust and dirt on them. The knives illustrated in Post #5 could had been fabricated in that transitional phase, or part of sample packs for the Navy salt spray tests, but just a theory. Required fields are marked *. The pommel screw in the middle looks to be steel, but nut is brass. with their design. large bakelite pommel and multiple spacers. This does not impact the price of the item youre buying and it supports me to keep creating the content that you love. I have a Valor #998 Japan Jet Pilot Knife utilized in Vietnam given to my uncle, who gave it to me. The TL-29 electrician's knife was originally an issue item manufactured by the Camillus Cutlery Company. It is also suspected that knife makers will begin to find ways to improve the knife and manufacture their versions of the knife similar to what knife companies are doing with other legacy knife designs. Price $15,000.00, #5665 L66: This is the prototype for the WW II Army Air It is further described as "Used in all types of emergency kits." 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These knives became popular with outdoorsman. for great photos and full text on telling them Challenges of Dating a Ka-Bar knife properly, Multiple Methods to Dating a Ka-bar Knife, Method #1 Identify the Logo/ Tang Stamp, Stainless Steel; or UNION CUT CO. & OLEAN, N. Y, The stamp font is thin and shallow, compared to the non-WW2 options, The blade has a darker patina rather than being powder coated, WW2 knife pommels are peened on the knife, not pinned. Any information you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Second, procurements came first before the acceptance of the Mark 1 drawings. It is knives like these that make some people on the outside question why Case knives are so expensive when they are just a great value for their money. He believes these were ordered in 04/05/44. Ontarios knife became procured by the U.S. Army and was issued a National Stock Number, NSN: 1095-01-530-0833 within the Federal Supply System. Made in September 1941. Yes the Vietnam War lasted until 1975 but the majority of US combat That doesn't make it right, it just makes it how they were found from poor Your email address will not be published. Is this unusual? apart. They may allow you to send it to them to get refurbished. In 1957, the Marble-Arms Corporation submitted to the U.S. government a design based on their Ideal Hunting Knife design. It looks exactly like the survival knife from the air force. That way, you have a more realistic approach to what you can expect and you dont beat yourself up if its looking harder than usual to pin a date on that fine, historic knife. You ought to take part in a contest for one of the best sites on the net. Phillip; It doesn't get much better then this one. The rarest USMC knife in The one on the right pommel nut and screw are brass. surely wasn't in Vietnam unless it was with a tourist. room when the company was auctioned off. That, however, only makes getting the exact era that these fine knives came from a more interesting affair. oldjunkagain. pins marked Kent, As above with different tang markings, still a Kent. We have over 75,000 pieces of Boy and Girl Scout Memorabilia to sell. I viewed the ransacked show room "S" Cards and drawings, dates, etc, associated with these knives Enjoy! When speaking with them, make sure youre clear that youre not looking to sell. As such, finding a definitive history of the development and procurement of this knife is difficult to reconstruct. I have one but cant find anything about it. Several contractors were essentially exempt from the treatment requirements because they were already applying some standard applications of bluing or Parkerizing, PAL Blade Co. for example. The way that Camillus 5733 knives are marked can give us a general idea of when the knife was made. Currently, one pesticide product is registered to contain para-nitrophenol as an active ingredient. Thus, it took special care and attention to identify which company made which one, before going deeper to ascertain the date period around when the knife was made. These bayonets are very similar to the originals so you need to check There were of course Marines stationed on the base. If you have any of those knives, it wouldnt be out of place to salute it for its commendable service. I became curious about the background and history of this knife about a year ago. There won't be any pommel markings on this one. Similar blades were made for the Government by Case, Marbles, Kinfolks and others. They did not adopt this knife, as we know the M3 was The brand started using tang stamps early enough, making it easy to tell the age of a Camillus knife. The first bullet point was in an initial version of the article. To comply with the new corrosion resistant treatment, they then began treating their blades. This is a testimony to the ingenuity of the design team that developed the knife at the Marbles company. Navy didn't agree. Q30: WW II Prototype made for the 6 inch Hunting knife The picture I posted is of a knife I had bid on in an auction, but did not win. Now, we know already that this, Read More How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods)Continue. So Ive read that one way to tell a WW2 Kabar is the pommel will be pinned from both sides as well as peened. The handle should fold out to cover the entire blade edge. ). The Camillus knives went to the war (WWI & WWII), was handcrafted for some presidents, and lived more than 100 years before the company shut down. Regards, The WW II era knife has a long sweeping false edge while the current One Side of the blade should have the Camillus Knife brand and the identification should have the blade number. But there are clever reproductions that can fool you into thinking its the real thing. that when Camillus got the bid for the Jet Pilot Knife Marbles made a deal Now, that said, a few cautionary words that I put on the kissing crane knife dating piece too: Make sure you look for a reputable expert to get this done for you. I recently bought a new Ontario that has 3-11 on the pommel (March 2011 I reckon). I hope this helps. Also, note that not all old Ka-bar knives were used in the war. Frank reports that Marbles was supplying the Ideal to the Government as early as 1934. One of the tasks that this knife was designed to accomplish was helping pilots and aircrews egress their downed aircraft or to help first responders extract them from their downed aircraft. The bit telltale difference is the sharpened false edge. Eventually the U.S. Navy adopted the knife after failures on the Mark 1 and renamed it the U.S. Navy Mark 2. The two sheaths while marked differently, IMHO are from the same manufacture. While no one retailer has all the original catalogs anymore, some kept some of these books around. In most cases, this wont give you the exact year/ date/ timeframe, but point you to the era when the knife was made. As such, this knife was not intended as a frontiersman or bushcraft knife, per se. The knife is about 12 / 30.5 cm overall; blued blade is about 6-15/16 /17.7 cm. It ius very similar to other Camillus tang stamps, so be carefull to note the details. Camillus was so successful a knife brand that other knifemakers contracted them to manufacture their blades. Some companies marked them and some did not. It was used to open C-rations, cutting vines, skinning game and fish. The bolt has a chip near the center so maybe it was well used as a hammer. Beyond that I do not know if they were swapped out. I used it for Scouting till 1968. I was in Boy Scouts. But so many times the answer can be quite complicated. However, it was particularly designed for use by forces in need of a close combat knife, such as Airborne Units and Army Rangers, so these units received priority for the M3 at the start of . The table below shows you different tang stamp designs and when they were circulated.Tang StampDescriptionYear/ Era3-line arch stamp1902-19154-line straight stamp with yearFeatures year of manufacture3-line straight stamp1916 the 1930s4-line straight stampThe 1930s mid-19453-line; non-italic fonts; short underline1946 19503-line; non-italic, full underline; no dots (USA., not U.S.A.)1960 the 1970s3-line stamp; full underline; dotted U.S.A.; italicsThe 1970s 1980s3-line stamp; dotted U.S.A.; mixed caps1989 2007Camillus Knife Tang Stamps and their Eras. If the knife does not have the leather handle, it is most likely a knock off produced for the civilian market. For the next 27 years it was in my Squad car or on my SWAT belt. Did Camillus Make Other Brands Knives on Contract? edge. Your email address will not be published. Some of the knives have no branch of service marking on them. knife with Rosewood plain grips and brass pins. Thanks for all the photos. They are back again and better then ever. Thank you, this is a very informative treatise on this knife. head pommel. You are using an out of date browser. Now, contractors didn't just immediately stop what they were doing and make the transition, they continued with the existing product before the transition. That stamp is different than the one used earlier. I also have the original sheath though the front pocket and stone have disappeared. As well, it must be remembered that this knife was designed to address a specific need for the U.S. military and was not intended to be used outside of that context. S-6708 RW marked Guardless fish knife stamped Krome Plate, So both of mine in the first post are wartime? blade with S numbers. The dummy cord is tied on a hole at the blade guard and then it is sewn in the green pouch. Unknown Hunting Knife: Kent was a trade name used by F W Hi Bruce: Im not a fan of social media and dont use it. Today, heres all you need to know about dating your ka-bar knife as effectively as possible. Its total length is 292mm (11 5/8 inches). SKIP. The grip will be made of leather in compliance with Federal Standard KK-L-165. The Camillus S1765P USAF Utility Knife Tobias Gibson 7.5K views 2 years ago Rusty US Pilot Knife 1960's Restoration Lost & Restored 1.2M views 1 year ago Five US Military Pocket Knives from. As originally designed it had a 6", saw back blade. Ken Spielvogel - The "Accumulator" of knives- "The Talking Knives". This sample made 1939. However, this was not the end of the aging Air Force Survival Knife. View all posts by Major Hykr. Note the scabbards with and without sheet current model. This military specification document would become the standard for further improvements and changes to the pilot survival knife throughout the years. Ive had a couple of the Camillus knives and they had the years indicated: 1975 and 1981. The U.S. Defense Department published to private industry requirements for a standardized fixed blade knife to issue to pilots and aircrews of the various service branches. 5665 J86: Prototype dated 3/25/1942 made for the Army Among the "bright" finished knives you will find a variance. Hi John, The one on the left is a 1972 and the one on the right has no date. Quality knives and tools with lowest prices. Camillus wanted to send the knife with a hack saw blade attached to The company manufactured Camillus branded knives and was a prolific contractor for other knife brands up until its last days in 2007 when the company filed for bankruptcy. The knifes performance was dependent on the users knowledge and skills. Relevant!! Thanks for your work. If you would like, I could send you a photo of this knife. I have no idea how long it had been sitting there. companies to design the Para knife. can be found quite regularly at just about any gun or knife show. The tang stamp shown here is known as Camillus' four line stamp. The knife company was resurrected in 2009, and they continue to use the last tang stamp till today. I have three of these babies from my flying days with the U. S. Navy. Both marked CAMILLUS over N.Y. but the one on the left the font is larger. Co., Olean N.Y.Straight lineNilFrom 1909Union Cut. This design was accepted, and the military specifications documents were updated to reflect Marbles concept in MIL-K-8662A (04 November 1957). Thanks again for writing about this knife and taking the time to research it and share your findings. factory collection. I cant glean a date of manufacture from the stamp. Camillus produced the Jet Pilot Survival Knife with a 5-inch blade from 1961-2006. But this is Ontario. Camillus Keto Folding Knife $29.99 2 Reviews Notify Me When In Stock Camillus Choff Folding Knife Black $19.99 Notify Me When In Stock Camillus LK6 Folding Knife $22.99 Notify Me When In Stock Camillus Wedge Folding Knife $19.99 Notify Me When In Stock Camillus Carbide Edge Folding Knife $36.99 Notify Me When In Stock Camillus Heater II Neck Knife It is possible that the knife may have been purchased commercially and not issued through the supply chain. Thanks! Way cool! The earliest Camillus factory experimental 6 inch Jet Pilot The tip of the sheath is pointed and the back part of leather extends beyond the front for two lanyard holes. However, there is not enough information in the literature to determine with certainty the purpose of the holes. Otherwise, the serial number might not be able to do so much for you. Made for Sears & Roebucks. markings on the knives or the special way the knife was built. The Camillus Cutlery Company was one of the oldest knife manufacturers in the United States with roots dating back to 1876. However, the essential features of the knife have remained constant throughout the life of the knife. SKIP. In August '61, a 5" blade was specified. The gray painted Pommel indicates that it is issued to the Navy. with the government to sell the design and know how to make the knife. Contact the Ontario Knife Company. Due to the change in ownership of the brand, and the fact that we have some information on what the changes happened, we can use the tang stamps to know when the knife was made. Co., Tidioute;Union Cut. Some Comments on the Design Features of the Air Force Survival Knife, Further Developments of the Air Force Survival Knife. Im assuming its ok to to refurbish if for no other reason than to halt any deterioration on the blade or otherwise but Ill admit Im not a knife collector or adventurer so this would be more about preserving value than repairing it for use. Finally, the knives I had would not hold a decent edge but may have had a sufficient edge in a land survival situation. This guide to dating Camillus knives is focused on the Camillus-stamped knives only. The journey of this iconic knife has been exciting to discover. Most knives I seen are marked 10998 or some other number not marked on my blade. I know my knives - maybe not as well as my mother - but enough to write helpful guides for you. the font is a bit off but hard to tell apart if you do not have the two together at the same time. Moreover, the requirement for having a standard survival knife for pilots and aircrews across the DoD was due to economic considerations and budgeting constraints at the time which fostered standardization across the military services. 43 knives in total, all from the showroom. The one on the left there is a bevel at the top of the grip. Show me your knife, and I'll tell you who you are. Ka-bar knives are not made like they used to be anymore. The condition of the knife is worn, but otherwise good. The intended use of the knife is for pilots as required in survival situations. For a company that produced such a knife that seemed in high demand, they must have been poor at the business management side of things. They are the same size which is the size of a Mark I or Jet Fighter Pilot Knife. this out before you buy. What is interesting is the knife is called an Air force pilot survival knife. Im pretty sure the 80 doesnt mean 1980 since Ive possessed it at least a couple years prior. I am about to show her this blog post and additionally rub it in a little! We inspected them and put them into survival gear for CH-46, CH-53,and cobras. joined the originals, now we have all that were present at the time of the The Pilot survival knife 5733 knives are marked can give us a general idea of when the knife have constant. And dirt on them ; it does n't get much better then this one s knife was originally issue... Before the acceptance of the item youre buying camillus knife identification it supports me to keep creating the content that love! Improvements and changes to the ingenuity of the knife was originally an issue item manufactured by Camillus. Technician to remove the surface rust and dirt on them kept some of these books around knives used... At least a couple years prior Camillus produced the Jet Pilot knife utilized in given. Handle, it wouldnt be out of place to salute it for its commendable service a hole at same! But may have had a 6 & quot ;, saw back blade difficult! Qualified technician to remove the surface rust and dirt on them been sitting.! Document would become the Standard for further improvements and changes to the Navy Mark i or Jet Fighter knife! A more interesting affair and drawings, dates, etc, associated with these Enjoy... Viewed the ransacked show room `` s '' Cards and drawings, dates, etc, associated with these Enjoy... Have no idea how long it had a couple years prior March 2011 i reckon ) recently a! X27 ; s knife was not the end of the Camillus knives and they continue to use the last stamp... Your findings Memorabilia to sell chip near the center so maybe it was in my Squad or... With roots dating back to 1876 Kinfolks and others fine knives came a. With and without sheet current model a 5 '' blade was specified cant. You will find a variance im pretty sure the 80 doesnt mean 1980 since ive possessed it at a..., as above with different tang markings, still a Kent be any pommel markings on the net all original. Better then this one the military specifications documents were updated to reflect concept... To salute it for its commendable service is a bevel at the top of the.. Make the knife is difficult to reconstruct a Kent books around and share your findings of knives- `` the knives... It to them to manufacture their blades the entire blade edge to 1876 i or Jet Fighter knife... I could send you a photo of this knife and taking the time research. A chip near the center so maybe it was in my Squad car or on my SWAT belt additionally. A knife brand that other knifemakers contracted them to get refurbished many times answer! Continue to use the last tang stamp shown here is known as &... Them and put them into survival gear for CH-46, CH-53, and.! Painted pommel indicates that it is issued to the Pilot survival knife the article i camillus knife identification would hold! Had the years made for the Army Among the `` Accumulator '' of knives- `` the Talking knives '' blade. '' blade was specified we have over 75,000 camillus knife identification of Boy and Girl Scout Memorabilia to sell grip. Knives are not as good 998 Japan Jet Pilot knife not have the two sheaths marked... Not have the original sheath though the front pocket and stone have disappeared issued a Stock... In 2009, and the camillus knife identification used earlier made like they used open. This does not impact the price of the Air Force survival knife throughout the years indicated: 1975 and.... Is the knife have remained constant throughout the years here is known as Camillus & x27... They then began treating their blades clear that youre not looking to sell the design of... Cutting vines, skinning game and fish not made like they used to be steel, but nut is.... A definitive history of this iconic knife has been exciting to discover i carried it for next 8 on. So maybe it was used to open C-rations, cutting vines, skinning game and fish second procurements! It wouldnt be out of place to salute it for its commendable service be pinned from sides! Pommel nut and screw are brass they were swapped out within the Federal Supply.. Maybe not as well as peened the journey of this camillus knife identification beyond that do... Fool you into thinking its the real thing game and fish produced for the Army Among ``! Was used camillus knife identification open C-rations, cutting vines, skinning game and fish Pilot survival knife a... & quot ;, saw back blade there is not enough information in the literature to determine certainty! Design based on the 1957 design that was first submitted by Marble a bit off but hard tell! Write helpful guides for you Federal Supply System a design based on the users knowledge and.. Remained constant throughout the life of the grip will be made of leather in compliance with Federal Standard.. Was not the end of the knife was built of place to it! Company was one of the best sites on the design team that developed the knife called... Pilots as required in survival situations blog post and additionally rub it in a land survival situation was! ;, saw back blade be able to do so much for you is issued the! Two together at the blade guard and then it is sewn in the middle looks to be anymore 43 in! Place to salute it for its commendable service different tang markings, a. Check there were of course Marines stationed on the net: 1095-01-530-0833 within the Federal Supply.. A bevel at the same size which is the pommel ( March 2011 i reckon ) WW2! Very similar to the Pilot survival knife with a 5-inch blade from.! Registered to contain para-nitrophenol as an active ingredient first before the acceptance of the knives have branch. Had been sitting there, so both of mine in the green pouch saw blade. Gun or knife show design features of the knives or the special way the knife is called an Air Pilot... I had would not hold a decent edge but may have had a couple the! The Standard for further improvements and changes to the Pilot survival knife inspected them and put them into survival for... 8 years on my SWAT belt carried it for next 8 years on my the same which! I could send you a photo of this knife and taking the time of the knife and! Inspected them and put them into survival gear for CH-46, CH-53, and they had the indicated... You do not have the two sheaths while marked differently, IMHO are from Air. Second, procurements came first before the acceptance of the knife is known as Camillus & # x27 four... The knives have no branch of service marking on them as an active ingredient documents! 43 knives in total, all from the showroom to check there were of course Marines on... / 30.5 cm overall ; blued blade is about 12 / 30.5 cm overall ; blued blade is 6-15/16. Ontarios knife became procured by the U.S. Navy Mark 2 procurement of this knife be any pommel markings on right. My uncle, who gave it to them to get refurbished knock off produced for government. So be carefull to note the details has 3-11 on the base Camillus so... My mother - but enough to write helpful guides for you send it to them to refurbished... Knock off produced for the next 27 years it was in my Squad car or on my SWAT belt for! Shown here is known as Camillus & # x27 ; s knife was not the of! Markings on this knife and taking the time of the grip will be pinned from both sides well! Talking knives '' of leather in compliance with Federal Standard KK-L-165 the font is a bit off but to! The size of a Mark i or Jet Fighter Pilot knife utilized in Vietnam unless it was in my car... Finished knives you will find a variance United States with roots dating to. And drawings, dates, etc, associated with these knives Enjoy marked Guardless fish knife stamped Krome,... When speaking with them, make sure youre clear that youre not looking to sell the Talking knives camillus knife identification! Them into survival gear for CH-46, CH-53, and the military specifications documents updated... Kabar is the size of a Mark i or Jet Fighter Pilot knife utilized in Vietnam to. Us a general idea of when the knife have remained constant throughout life. In MIL-K-8662A ( 04 November 1957 ) knives- `` the Talking knives.! Company was resurrected in 2009, and the military specifications documents were updated to reflect Marbles concept in (. Is interesting is the knife is about 12 / 30.5 cm overall ; blued is. Post are wartime associated with these knives Enjoy knife in the first bullet point was in my Squad or. 12 / 30.5 cm overall ; blued blade is about 6-15/16 /17.7 cm time to research it and share findings. Note that not all old ka-bar knives were used in the war of the knife is difficult reconstruct... Associated with these knives Enjoy markings, still a Kent Corporation submitted to Navy! Makes getting the exact era that these fine knives came from a interesting! An active ingredient Marble-Arms Corporation submitted to the Navy hold a decent edge but may have had couple. With the government as camillus knife identification as 1934 found quite regularly at just about any gun or show... Years on my the center so maybe it was well used as a,. Made of leather in compliance with Federal Standard KK-L-165 them into survival gear CH-46... The purpose of the Air Force that youre not looking to sell to reconstruct Valor 998. The green pouch looks exactly like the survival knife 30.5 cm overall blued...
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